James Traina (@EconTraina) profile picture

Economist and AP of Finance @NYUStern @NYUAbuDhabi | PhD @ChicagoBooth & @UChi_Economics | Markups, Productivity, Investment, Technology

Joined December 2021
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You can't scale your way to data from counterfactuals that haven't happened. Nice piece. My read on what it does and doesn't show:
New post : Can a Transformer “Learn” Economic Relationships? Revisiting the Lucas Critique in the age of Transformers. with @arpitrage We simulated data from an NK model, fit a transformer, and tested out of sample fit How did it do? Pretty well! Link and thread in reply:
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Je vous présente RIPe (Research Institute for the Public Economy) : un institut de recherche et d’analyse politique qui façonne des idées prêtes à être intégrées dans l’action publique. Le premier projet de longue haleine de RIPe consiste en une série de contenus explicatifs en wolof — sous-titrés en français, en anglais et en wolofal — visant à doter les citoyens du Sénégal, de la Gambie, de la Mauritanie, de la Guinée, de la Guinée-Bissau, du Mali et de la diaspora des outils nécessaires pour participer à la vie économique et plaider en faveur de politiques publiques judicieuses. Pour commencer : qui détermine les prix ?
Qui fixe le prix de votre mouton de Tabaski ? Personne. Et tout le monde. Expliqué en wolof. #kebetu #Senegal #Tabaski
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As AI labs race toward Recursive Self Improvement, there’s a possibility that what they are actually racing toward is Recursive Self Extinction — of their business model. Here’s my reasoning. 1. Progress on verifiable tasks continues. In particular, improving the cost efficiency of existing capabilities is a highly verifiable task. For the past few years, cost per equivalent capability has dropped by at least 10x per year. I think this progress will be sustained for a few more years, and even accelerate as labs use AI more and more heavily for AI research in the pursuit of RSI. There is of course a ceiling to efficiency improvements, but I don’t think we’re close to that ceiling. 2. Progress on most unverifiable tasks remains frustratingly hard. AI inherits the same limitations (ambiguous success criteria, slow and noisy feedback) that limit human performance at tasks ranging from writing to governance. The optimization paradigm generally doesn’t result in superhuman capabilities on such tasks, because whatever proxy you optimize for gets Goodharted. For example, I recently pointed out how over-optimization explains Claude’s overly dense and ornamental writing style that’s since been dialed back. 3. RSI ends up being narrow. A consequence of the above two points — even if some version of RSI is achieved, it results in an explosion in some dimensions (efficiency, verifiable tasks) while falling short of producing something that is superintelligent in any real sense or capable of automating a broad swath of jobs in the economy. 4. More than one lab stays at the frontier. This means the market will remain competitive, and developers can’t charge high margins to compensate for rapidly falling inference prices. Any compute scarcity that allows higher margins is temporary, in my view. I also think it’s likely that most of the innovations continue to make their way into open-weight models with some lag, so open-weight models are at cost parity for inference or only slightly more expensive. Note that efficiency tricks and verifiable capabilities tend to leak much faster than unverifiable ones. Distillation could be one reason, but simply knowing that something can be sped up 10x tends to have a focusing effect on research and innovation. 5. Jevons’ paradox is not a magic bullet. If the above points hold, there are very few applications that will consume so many tokens that they could generate the astronomical amounts of revenue implied by the labs’ valuations. We’re talking about a 10x growth in tokens year after year, just to keep revenue flat given falling prices. Even today’s behemoth tasks like migration of million-line legacy codebases will likely become cheap within a few years. While new applications will open up, there won’t be orders of magnitude more new ones. As for unverifiable tasks, inference scaling rapidly hits diminishing returns. Ultimately you have to have a human in the loop who’s accountable for the result. Spending more on tokens doesn’t let customers escape that responsibility — and only makes the human review bottleneck worse. 6. What about scientific research? Science is an endless frontier, and more tokens could perpetually mean more discoveries and inventions, in theory. But the unfortunate thing about research is that researchers don’t get to capture the value it creates, which is why it requires government funding in the first place. Even if it’s true that AI could enable great scientific innovations, I don’t think AI companies will make much money off of that. I think they are currently investing in AI-for-science not as a future revenue stream but as a loss leader because they want to show the public that it could be beneficial to humanity. 7. The one escape hatch is moving “up the stack”, by which I mean quickly transitioning from selling tokens to an enterprise software like model that relies on high switching costs, deep integration into workflows, and control over systems of record. In this world, enterprises will purchase “digital workers” or pay per solution (e.g. resolved support ticket) rather than tokens, so it’s good or neutral for AI companies if inference costs fall. And open models don’t matter as much — Linux being free didn’t make most enterprises switch away from Windows, because they paid for polish, peace of mind, support, and familiarity, not the code itself. I think this is the labs’ best bet for becoming sustainable businesses (though the potential lock-in is concerning for their customers!). The problem is that the labs have many hurdles to clear to get there, most of all their mindset, and the faster they race toward RSI, the shorter the window they give themselves for this transition. The pure-play AI labs are the ones who are farthest from being able to make this transition, and AI companies with a long history in enterprise software are relatively well positioned. In short, the race to RSI ends up being a race to eliminate the labs’ main avenue for capturing the value that they create — the fate of many past transformative technologies such as railroads, airlines, and fiber. The labs’ bet is that RSI produces a durable, decisive lead that escapes commoditization. My view is that there are two different improvement loops that have been conflated, and they will come apart. The efficiency improvement loop will accelerate, but a broader improvement loop that might lead to AGI or superintelligence will require ever-increasing amounts of compute, talent, data, and real-world feedback that can only come from gradual deployment, and the money to fund all this will have to come from massive revenue growth. And the irony is that the first improvement loop is undermining exactly that revenue growth. The premise in my chain of reasoning that I’m least confident in is #5 — that Jevons’ paradox will eventually stop being able to compensate for efficiency improvements. A few months ago I was much more of a believer in continued, nearly unbounded token volume growth, but the more I’ve thought about it the more skeptical I’ve become. To better understand why the premises and outcome I've laid out are at least a possibility: * My AI-as-normal-technology essay and follow-up writings with @sayashk on our newsletter normaltech.ai/ * My ICML talk laying out my skepticism of the claim that RSI will lead to superintelligence normaltech.ai/p/what-will-be… * Ramez Naam’s review of the evidence questioning the prospects of an intelligence explosion (@ramez) noahpinion.blog/p/wheres-the… * My piece with Akash Kapur (@akashkapur) on whether AI labs will move up the stack normaltech.ai/p/up-the-stack… * Many pieces by Nathan Lambert (@natolambert) such as “I expect rapid progress but not towards general superintelligence.”
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James Traina retweeted
This is a fantastic idea - a mass attempted replication of old findings of LLMs with new models. Much conventional wisdom is outdated. Recent models no longer invent citations and both hallucination rates & stereotyping has dropped. But they are still sycophantic & lean left.
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I asked AI to review this paper as an IR professor.
Developing a tractable framework for analyzing geopolitics as a network of coordination and strategic influence, from @ErnestLiuEcon, Stephen J. Redding, Bennett Smith-Worthington, and @david_yang nber.org/papers/w35951
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The paper estimates that China has about twice the pull of the US. But is China leading other countries, or just voting with countries that already agree with it? UN votes alone can't tell us.
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And UN votes are cheap. I'd be more convinced if the method predicted costly moves like sanctions or military ties. For now, it's a useful map of diplomatic alignment. Whether it shows real influence is still open."
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James Traina retweeted
i feel so excited for econ majors these days — there’s so much alpha in knowing the discipline well and applying it to ai alignment seems important to study - game theory - collective action problems - invisible incentives to better understand - swarm behavior - revealed preferences - how the invisible hand guides agent behavior more than individual alignment what are ppl reading in the overlap of these two domains?
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James Traina retweeted
New Anthropic research: How AI agents shape experts' judgment calls When experts delegate work to an agent, do they still make the key decisions? We tested this in a randomized trial with 50 professional data analysts.
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I've been thinking about this for a few days. It's an interesting framing. Everyone (OG AI economists, new AI economists, non-economists) should be constrained by their other explanatory commitments, their model of the world. This is a necessary part of model-based thinking, so you don't just make stuff up anew each time. For me (and I think many other economists), the most basic commitment are things like scarcity, trade-offs, constraints, and then equilibrium adjustments. Don't assume away these things. When you bring this to growth, you don't ignore scarcity, even if economic growth has made scarcity a lot less binding than it was in 1500. You start to think about how improvements (falling prices) interact with other scarce resources and trade-offs. The responses generate other innovations. Growth is the net interaction of all this. This doesn't magically go out the window when we say AGI. It maybe should but we need a reason, grounded in higher level intellectual commitments. Take @ChadJonesEcon. If you spend a career thinking about growth through new ideas, nonrivalrous knowledge, allocating goods to research, those don't go out the window. That's your framework for thinking about what drives growth. But also so are the constraints. If you spend your time thinking about bottlenecks as a part of past growth, that's your starting point. Lo and behold, he starts writing AI papers and that's the starting point. That doesn't mean the framework is "AI as a normal technology". It doesn't mean its the exact same in an AGI world as a non-AGI world but you have a model-based approach to thinking about what changes. The feedback is endogenous, and the same framework can generate explosive growth. We don't want to like an approach simply because it generates big growth or dislike because it doesn't. You can't simply choose the conclusion you want independently of your account of how the world works. Building from familiar economics models, even ones with labor and capital, aren't a failure to take AGI seriously. You can still think some things are no longer scarce. That's a huge change. Of course, we can always use a model badly. Maybe your past model had land as a big constraint and that fit the data in a world where land is a constraint, but then the Industrial Revolution happens and ideas/trade are the constraint. But we want to be clear in the model, what is the constraint that is doing the real work and will that be the same in the future? Maybe it is or maybe it isn't. We should be very hesitant, and I'm not saying Jan is doing this, of confusing "taking AGI seriously" with arriving at sufficiently radical conclusions. That's not a good epistemic standard. You can't choose the conclusion you want independently of your account of how the world works. The model/account of the world constrains you the student of the world and theorist.
Few years ago, there was just a handful of economists seriously thinking about AI (@akorinek,@pawtrammell,@erikbryn,Carl Shulman & few of their collaborators) and I was like 'this is insane, there should be 10x as many'. Now it's ~10x-30x more and frankly it is disappointing so far. Majority of the new economists bring a mindset and frames which are something between unhelpful to directly harmful for understanding AGI - not taking AGI seriously / "AI as a normal technology" - merchants of cope dynamic (in high demand by the labs) - labour/capital mindset - people were wrong about risks of tech transitions in the past and by induction they are again etc... coupled with epistemic arrogance. Sorry for being very blunt, by my impression is part of the problem is economists are often used to be in the broader context of humanities where they are the most quantitative and in some ways the smartest lot in various rooms, and others disagree with them for bad reasons. But this is _not_ the case relative to AI safety a few years ago!
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it's a brand new day never to happen again until tomorrow
Obviously there have been bigger upsets. But this was a massively high stakes election, with an incredible amount of scrutiny and analysis. And not only were the markets egregiously offside, it wasn’t even a particularly close race.
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James Traina retweeted
Replying to @Noahpinion
According to their S-1 and the history of past IPOs: - Liquidity for shareholders (VCs) and employees - Timing: they say growth is at its peak and they just turned profitable (with adjustments). docs.pe.finance/anthropic-s1…
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You might have 1–5 years to contribute intellectually to the world before AGI. What should you do with them? Excellent advice from @jaschasd (Anthropic) at Stanford. Skip Netflix tonight and watch this instead.
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James Traina retweeted
It's probably the best time in history to already have a PhD
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James Traina retweeted
One of my favorite papers in the LLMs & Social Sciences literature is Ashokkumar et al. which shows that LLMs (GPT-4) asked to simulate how people respond in survey experiments is predictive of actual trt effects & the result is not likely to be memorization; their data & code are public and I used it to do a follow-up w/ more recent models 1/
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"I Just Ran 2 Million Regressions" pt. 2
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