#AfricanRenaissancePodcast On the tension between artistic education and the freedom to create work that ordinary people can connect with. Makamo reflects on his own experience of studying art and the discomfort he felt with the idea that artists could be trained to create for a particular audience rather than for people more broadly. His concern is not simply about who understands art, but who is given the authority to appreciate it. When artistic expression is shaped around a preconceived consumer, the public can be excluded from something that should be capable of speaking across different experiences and backgrounds. Nelson Makamo: Because that's, that's... I think that's where also it brings the confusion. Um, and that's one of the things that I, I did struggle with, and hated to go to school to go study art, because I felt that you've been trained not to create art for the people. Dr Mbuyiseni Ndlozi: Hmm. But you'd create it for a certain— Nelson Makamo: Yeah. Dr Mbuyiseni Ndlozi: ... uh, preconceived consumer. Nelson Makamo: That's it.

#AfricanRenaissancePodcast On artistic materials, creative approaches and the different ways artists communicate. In discussing what distinguishes one artwork from another, Makamo refers to canvas, oil, watercolour, sculpture and bronze. The materials matter, but his explanation also draws a comparison with music, where different genres and methods of making music coexist. Just as music is not limited to one style or way of production, visual art can take many forms. His reflection encourages audiences to look beyond a single definition of what art should be and to consider the different creative choices through which artists develop their own practices. Nelson Makamo: Canvass. It's, it's oil, it's watercolor, it's sculptures, bronze. Um, yes, it matters or i- what materials you're using when... But I think later on, you also get to understand or, like, we use different ma- uh, materials as the artist I think it's the same as I'll say is the s- almost the same thing as when you look at music. You have someone who sing kwaito. You have someone who does classic music. The classic person who will do music traditionally or in a way that music, that they would say musically is done the right way. Then you have someone who would build a studio and, and start recording in their, in their bedroom, and then they will start releasing the music, they will say underground.