shoots with arrows, throws with objects #elephant

München, Bayern
Joined May 2018
Johannes Drever 🌫➰💎 retweeted
Designing a course, looking back in time for inspiration
4
7
2
164
2,858
Johannes Drever 🌫➰💎 retweeted
Put simply
15
59
7
677
12,136
Johannes Drever 🌫➰💎 retweeted
It is a weird weird year to be a formal methods expert. Some unorganized thoughts on the new @AnthropicAI and @theoremlabs post on formal verification (anthropic.com/research/forma…): - This is very cool. - The main innovation is verifying a later stage of the program. Normally provers take the source code, LLM it into a theorem language, and then prove that, which means you have to make assumptions about source semantics and compilation properties. It's very easy to make a mistake in translating and prove the wrong thing! What they instead do is compile the code into assembly, and then (if I understand this correctly), compile that assembly into a theorem language (which they call LPS). So as long as the compiler is faithful you can skip the whole divergence problem. - I'm glad they clarify that you still have to trust the translation process, the "hardware, OS, OCaml" compiler, the LPS model, and also assume that the program is single threaded with fixed memory. The single biggest source of errors in formally verified code is when the proof assumes something that isn't true in practice. It's really, really important to state your assumptions! - I'm not clear why they need to compile the fuzzer into the theorem. Is it to act as a description of valid inputs and workload? Maybe to embed assertions in as theorems? - Holy crap, 180 million lines of Rocq. Is that more Rocq than exists in the world already? I notice they say a 600,000 line proof corresponds to roughly 20k CPU instructions. That would be like, 1-2k lines of source code at most? Really goes to show how inefficient this approach is and how it only works because you can throw LLMs at the problem. - This, probably deliberately, doesn't address the single biggest gap in AI-based verification: AIs cannot come up with good properties. Doesn't matter if you're doing unit testing, property testing, formal verification. I always assumed this was a "frontier labs haven't trained for it yet" thing, but if Anthropic hasn't talked about that here, maybe they've tried and haven't been successful yet. That's interesting to me. Instead, they take a known universal property (this code doesn't crash or get flagged by UBsan) and prove that instead. Still very useful, but makes it harder to generalize to proving arbitrary things about arbitrary programs. - Anybody reading the official post should also read their expert review appendix (www-cdn.anthropic.com/files/…). It points out some interesting things, like the fact that most of the code the LLM wrote wasn't used in the proof (over one billion lines of Rocq), that they had to prove the equivalence between fuzzed and unfuzzed programs, and (this is most interesting), some experiments find that the LLM-method of proofwriting may not scale to more complex things. - Also read the description of LPS (github.com/theorem-labs/oss-…) to understand the limitations of the assembly -> Rocq compilation. In particular, it does not handle concurrency at all (which is one of the main use cases for formal methods!) or OS signals. Also it can't prove things about program arguments with slash characters, meaning they can prove stuff about `rm foo` but not `rm foo/bar`. - The official skill (github.com/theorem-labs/oss-…) doesn't tell us much about the nature of FM and AI. Probably too much for me to hope of any skill. - Some of the article's specific caveats and throat clearings make me think someone at Anthropic reads my stuff ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
35
113
10
746
185,526
Das könnte unbequem werden.
Breaking News! Code UFB!!! It takes 2 weeks to confirm ocean sea surface temperatures and the long wait is finally over. The first day in recorded history with Nino 3.4 SST at or above 30.0°C is now officially on the record. October 7, 2026: 30.000°C. climatereanalyzer.org/clim/s…
1
47
Shitbürger 👇
“When liberty is mentioned, we must always be careful to observe whether it is not really the assertion of private interests which is thereby designated.”
38
Die Atonisten mussten erst die Leibniz-Mühle anschmeissen um euch vom Jes Grew zu überzeugen #elephant
36
… irrglauben
From my AI World Fair talk in June 2026 on using formal verification for AI safety. Apparently they did listen, but never bothered to tell me (yet) ;-)
33
lernt kategorientheorie … irrglauben
So does this mean that when I teach about type theory in my undergraduate PL class now students will stop railing about how it's "useless" and "esoteric" in my course reviews 😭😭
54
Lernt Kat… naja ich wisst schon
You need to understand this now. These kinds of criticisms about highly abstract or difficult methods are now over. 1) system development is now capped by math, not “how long it takes to get it working” 2) your users are now agents in the trillions that understand hard math
51
Johannes Drever 🌫➰💎 retweeted
New episode of The Enactive Fold out now! “A Symphony Without a Conductor: Agency, Emergence, and the Transdisciplinary Legacy of Autopoiesis” featuring Prof Bruce Clarke & Dr Martin E. Rosenberg. 🎧 Listen here: ow.ly/vcge50ZZCkc #SystemsThinking #PodcastRecs
1
2
72
Johannes Drever 🌫➰💎 retweeted
Nice
New on our Frontier Red Team blog: using Claude to formally verify software at large scale. Formal verification can prove that code is free of certain bugs, but historically it has only been feasible for small codebases (or required a lot of expert time). With AI models, however, this is beginning to change. In collaboration with @theoremlabs, we used Claude to prove security properties in over one hundred real-world open-source libraries over the span of a few weeks. Read our research in full here: anthropic.com/research/forma…
2
4
28
2,531
Lernt Kategorientheorie, ihr könnt nichts verlieren als euren Irrglauben!
We formally verified 123 open-source projects in a partnership with Anthropic. Formal verification at scale is here! Now we’re launching OSS Verify to scale it to the software we all depend on. We prove it’s crash-free or send you the patches it needs. Free for open-source. Let’s bootstrap the verified software ecosystem: theorem.dev/oss-verify
1
1
184
Johannes Drever 🌫➰💎 retweeted
We formally verified 123 open-source projects in a partnership with Anthropic. Formal verification at scale is here! Now we’re launching OSS Verify to scale it to the software we all depend on. We prove it’s crash-free or send you the patches it needs. Free for open-source. Let’s bootstrap the verified software ecosystem: theorem.dev/oss-verify
New on our Frontier Red Team blog: using Claude to formally verify software at large scale. Formal verification can prove that code is free of certain bugs, but historically it has only been feasible for small codebases (or required a lot of expert time). With AI models, however, this is beginning to change. In collaboration with @theoremlabs, we used Claude to prove security properties in over one hundred real-world open-source libraries over the span of a few weeks. Read our research in full here: anthropic.com/research/forma…
37
118
25
1,052
130,654
Johannes Drever 🌫➰💎 retweeted
You won't believe how many people told me over the past 10+ years that proof assistants would never achieve widespread use, and that my work was therefore not useful. Ignore people who discount entire fields of research because they are hard. All the more motivation for research
14
32
3
462
11,265
Johannes Drever 🌫➰💎 retweeted
Throwback to 2018 ai generated dogbread
1
9
114
#Maschinenraun Das ist der ultimative Triumph des Paskschen Tanzes. Du hast nicht nur das System gestört, du hast es wärmer gemacht.
35
#Maschinenraun Meijer beschreibt den feuchten Traum der Atonisten: Die Maschine, die sich ihren eigenen Sinn gibt, indem sie den Beobachter aus dem Code herauskompiliert.
"... Fine-tuning a model corresponds to partial evaluation of an interpreter to yield a compiler. Then, the second Futamura projection shows that we can specialize/fine-tune a model to fine-tune other models ..." Original Automind pitch, circa 2023
1
1
2
110
Fink würde ihn anlächeln und sagen: "Ihr habt eine Mühle gebaut, die andere Mühlen baut. Aber es ist immer noch kein Müller darin."
29