Love this. 👇

We agree on that much, Brett... we're not saying the same thing. This thread has taken a path WAY off my intended course. I'm happy to start another one with a new OP on this, but for now, I'll address your objections briefly and leave it there. "Author of sin" doesn't mean "committer of sin," nor does it mean "father of lies." Satan lies (John 8:44). God doesn't. Yet "the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these thy prophets" (1 Kings 22:23). God causing a thing isn't God committing it. Sin is transgression of the law (1 John 3:4), and God isn't under His own law. Equating "author of sin" with "father of lies" is equivocation (specifically, in the word "father"), and it still assumes the very thing you need to prove. Grace and peace.

I appreciate the conversation, sir. I know it wasn't your whole point, but it's the one I was addressing... that being the claim that your church's hierarchy is the church we see in the NT. Here are some parting thoughts to summarize my point in our thread: I know you say the Church has authority to interpret Scripture in a way that's binding on all Christians everywhere... but that's just not in Scripture. The apostles were the ones who had that authority. They were eyewitnesses of the risen Christ (Acts 1:21-22; 1 Cor 9:1), called by Jesus Himself (Mark 3:14; Gal 1:1), and confirmed by "the signs of an apostle" (2 Cor 12:12). In fact, Paul says he was the "last of all" to see Him (1 Cor 15:8). So if seeing the risen Christ is required and Paul was the last, the office (and its authority) ended with them. What they passed on was the teaching, to faithful men (2 Tim 2:2)... not their apostolic authority. And despite your repeated appeals to Acts 15, that passage just doesn't say what you're trying to get it to say. Who made the decision? "The apostles and elders" (v6)... the apostles were present. How was the decision finalized? James settled it from Scripture, "as it is written" (v15). Who was the authority behind the decision? "It seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us" (v28)... and the apostles were part of that "us." Nowhere does it say that authority would be handed down to later councils like Nicaea, or to anyone today. Again, I appreciate the chat. Keep reading and submitting to God's Word, and I'll pray the Holy Spirit guides you into all truth (John 16:13). Grace and peace.

On no basis at all. That infant is simply not condemned. Condemnation is for sin 👉 "the dead were judged... every man according to their works" (Rev 20:12). No works, no sin, nothing to condemn (Rom 4:15). I think you're assuming that election is the ground of anyone's condemnation. It isn't. Election is "to salvation" (2 Thess 2:13), and salvation is from sins (Matt 1:21). So an infant who never sinned isn't condemned for not being elect. He isn't condemned at all.

Understood. I appreciate it. No hard feelings. You and I have gone a few rounds before, and I know we differ on much, but I agree that it's beyond R vs D. "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." (Eph 6:12) And praise God, He's almighty and faithful. "God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble." (Ps 46:1)

I appreciate the clarification. I appreciate your thoughts on this. 👍 Grace and peace.

Fair enough, Peter said the exact words “honor the king,” but Paul commands honor too. Look, I've already said we're to honor those in authority. Voting still isn't honor, and it still isn't commanded.

Appreciate the effort and the use of Scripture. While every passage you cite commands doing good or shows believers doing good, none of them commands voting as the way to do it. Your leap from "do good" to "not voting is sin" is a non sequitur. That said, I think you make some good points and give sound reasons for why voting is a valid liberty we have. It’s just not scriptural to say it’s a sin to abstain.

This could apply if not voting were illegal… it isn’t. “Caesar” gives the right, but he doesn't command it. So it's not rebellion. And "honor the king" is Peter, not Paul. 😉

"Stewardship applies" isn't a scriptural argument, and whether voting was a concept is irrelevant. If you're arguing from stewardship, show from Scripture how it condemns not voting as sin.

My argument is that there's no Scripture that makes it a sin. You showed zero Scripture. You proved my point. Thanks!

Wait. You asked for a verse showing God determines the very thoughts of the flesh that are against Him. I gave you one. Now it's "every thought and deed." That's moving the goalposts, which is either dishonest or plain sloppy. Either way, I've lost interest in discussing this with you further. I've given you Scripture. What you do with it is between you and God. Grace and peace.

You just said God "ordained the crucifixion through the wicked acts of men." That's my point. Thanks for that. You keep insisting upon the label… very telling. So the fact that I deny inherited guilt, reject compatibilism, and have no problem saying God is the author of sin (contrary to the WCF) doesn't matter, huh? It just weakens your argument, brother. Drop it already. Honestly, you've given a prime example of why I posted the OP in the first place. That is, many assume that believing God determines all things makes you a Calvinist. Thanks for that as well. Grace and peace.

"Where no law is, there is no transgression." (Rom 4:15) If that's a fake standard, then your problem is with Scripture... not with me.

🎯 Calling it sin means adding a command God didn't give. Nice reply! 👍

You think so? Show me.

Wow. That was quite the logical leap. You said, "And the Scriptures do address this." Indeed they do. The sheep are to pray for, submit to, and honor those in authority. Nothing there makes not voting a sin. Show me otherwise.

Because my claim is that there is none. You dispute it by producing some. That’s how it works. I mean, if you can show me how to cite Scripture that isn’t there… 🤷‍♂️

Civic duty, sure. Sin? No. That's what I'm addressing. Some Christians are binding consciences where Scripture doesn't.